Shaping The Future of Work: Trends and Insights from Paul Holland

Paul: Right, Tim. I’m excited to be with you and excited to share too and to your point it is kind of like insider baseball, but let’s see if we can tie it out right outside and give them some perspective. Not only about what you and I are in the industry we’re in but how that impacts people more broadly.

Tim: So let’s start how we always do. And that is, I love to hear everybody’s different definitions of culture. So how would you define culture?

Paul: Culture, you know, for me, culture is what everybody brings through the front door every day, right? It’s their behaviors, their attitudes, their values even. And so the culture of a company from where I sit really is about the amalgamation of all of that coming together that gets shaped and shared. And I think the other thing that’s interesting for me about culture, especially in the work environment is the fact that we probably have subcultures, right? In our business areas of expertise, we made a sales culture, design culture. And so culture, when we think specifically about the workspace, it truly is our behaviors, our attitudes, and the values that we bring in the door every day.

Paul: And one other thought around culture, which I think is really exciting is the fact that we can curate culture, you know, to help us go where it’s best for our people and what’s best for our clients. So the stakeholders, the shareholders, that kind of thing, we can curate it, we can design it, we can direct it, which is really exciting.

Tim: So let’s dig in there and that’s a great jumping off point here around curation. How can an organization affect culture? Because as you said, it’s kind of a collective and you alluded to the fact that it’s the personality of an organization some say, but it’s made up of the people. How can an organization curate that for their…?

Paul: That is a great question. You know, you’ve heard it, I know you and I read a lot of the same stuff and listen to a lot of the same people and everyone says, well, culture trumps strategy and it actually does, right? So how do we curate it? I think it starts with really coming to consensus and agreement about what we value, right? What we value as people, whether that’s, it doesn’t matter where you take that. It’s like we value our people, we value our community, we value—what are our values? And I think that’s really where it begins, where we come into agreement about what we value, what we’re gonna stand for, what’s our purpose? And then finally, what’s our non negotiables? Another way of saying it is how do we defend against those people that would try to tear down a culture or dismantle or disrupt a culture?

Tim: I love that. And you know what I’ve often said is, you know, for us as an organization, we are the bumpers in the bowling lane of culture. We keep things from off into the gutters. And just anecdotally for our company, you know, we have our set of values but there’s one in particular that’s really a nonnegotiable and that’s positivity. Right? We’re not gonna rage at the darkness. We’re gonna turn up the light. You know, we’re gonna make sure that we are finding solutions not toiling in the reasons why we got here. Let’s figure out how we’re gonna fix the problem. And that has in the past squeezed some people out because that just wasn’t the right cultural fit for them, not that they’re bad people, just that positivity wasn’t something that they valued.

Paul: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, if you think about it or the way I would think about it is if culture is done right, we are going to eliminate or we are going to move away from those who don’t align to that culture. And as we continue to curate and mature our culture, we begin to attract people that align to our culture, which makes that less of a heavy lift, right? So I think it’s really an interesting notion where people talk about it and really what they’re talking about sometimes is role. What the role is they do, do they fit it well, is their competency, skill set and passions wrapped into that. But I think it’s more of a cultural fit and I think when done well, it will begin to create this gravitational pull of people that align to our culture. And that’s super exciting. You know, when you’ve got everybody going the same direction, same heartbeat, same sense of purpose. That’s the X factor in business, man. It’s everything.

Tim: You’re never gonna be 100% in your hiring. But we got exponentially better when we started aligning that with our culture and we started aligning it with our values. And when we started looking through that lens on whether or not we were gonna hire someone first—it just started changing our success rate on hiring.

Paul: Absolutely. I believe culture truly is the X factor. And really when you go down and peel that back even further, what are we saying? It’s really about the people. I mean, it’s all about the people, we’re in the people business. And that’s the thing I think that’s been really great in the last few years where we just come to realize that yes, we sell products and services, we create, we do all kinds of things, right? But in reality, we are in the people business. We affect and impact and shape the way people live, work, play, work together. And that’s really an exciting notion when you begin to elevate your thoughts like that as opposed to what is it we sell and what does that look like?

Tim: Right. So assuming you’re focused on culture—good culture, bad culture at an organization—how does that affect how they support their clients? Because I feel like that is a direct reflection, even if the client doesn’t recognize why, they can sense internal strife or they can sense a harmonious work environment for those people they’re working with.

Paul: I totally agree with that. I think the interesting thing—I do a lot of business planning, facilitation, strategic planning, different things like that. And one of the things I think that’s fascinating about what you just said is if we can think about putting the customer in the middle of our conversations, of our plans, of our execution and things like that, which to me is a direct connective tissue to culture—like we value our clients, right? And there’s no question that they can feel it. You don’t even have to talk about it. You don’t even have to get in their face with it or anything like that. You’re exactly right. I totally agree with that. I believe that they can actually feel it in the way you work together. And the fascinating thing about that is by putting the client in the middle of what we’re talking about here, the lift or the heaviness of doing complex work and things like that really gets much lighter. We become more efficient, effective, more profitable. And you know what, that’s not a bad thing either because we have a responsibility to be profitable to be there for them next year, kind of thing. Right. So all of the upside is there and the client feels it and guess what? They vote again with their wallet and their trust. And I think it’s just a beautiful thing when people really think about that and really think about, you know what, if we put the client in the middle of what we’re thinking about—and frankly, that’s what Amazon and other companies have done, right? Where do we get the friction out? And people feel it or they don’t feel it and if they don’t feel it, they probably won’t be around too long.

Tim: Well, and, you know, it’s interesting as you speak about this, I’m sensing, you know, for those companies out there that may not be focusing on culture as much, it actually is—you can monetize culture in a way that if your clients are feeling it, they wanna come back, they’re spending more because they can sense the culture, you’re all of a sudden monetizing the culture that you’ve created.

Paul: Yeah. Absolutely, you are. And it lifts everybody. Everybody’s lifting the boat then. And here’s the thing that’s interesting. I know you’re a huge John Maxwell fan. Maxwell talks about influence, that there’s really no such thing as neutral influence. There’s either positive or there’s negative. Well, I think culture is the same way. Can we risk saying, well, yeah, I think we have culture, it is what it is. But is it neutral? No, it’s either positive or it’s negative and you’re either reaping the benefits from it or you’re being pulled down and dragged down because it’s negative. So yeah, there’s no question that I think frankly customers are probably the best litmus of culture.

Tim: Yeah. And look, my wife was in hr for many, many years and fought the struggles from the executives that she worked with on how important it was to focus on that culture and that internal all that. So if there are any hr professionals out there, use that—this could be, you could monetize culture. If you do it right, you can monetize culture.

Paul: And the interesting thing is coming back to the values based. Can you say, well, one of our values is to be profitable? Sure. And why do we want to do that? So we can do better, right? So we can help people, all that kind of thing. So that’s not a negative. But I frankly think that that culture, that X factor, that positive culture that has clients in the middle, then the profitability comes. You know, it’s interesting, let’s build this, let’s curate this and we’re gonna see great benefit from it in so many ways, so many ways.

Tim: Yes. So, OK, so let’s change course a little bit here and get into this industry. Now, you consult with a lot of different dealers around the country in our industry, you deal with different manufacturer alignments, so you have a very, very interesting perspective holistically around the country of what’s happening. So I’m just curious, I want to take this time because I just personally have a lot of questions as it relates to the industry, but tell me the changes you’ve seen just in the past five or 10 years in this industry.

Paul: Our industry is really, really interesting and we at Solomon Coyle, me specifically, have the enviable place to be able to observe a lot. You’re right. We work with everybody really, and we measure and we study and we let the narrative be derived from what the data tells us, all that kind of thing. Our industry has changed more in the last, I would say 10 years, maybe going 10 years, maybe going back even a little further than that.

Paul: One of the places to start is our industry, which is really the interior finish out in contract furnishings. It’s a very complex industry. And what’s fascinating is what directs our industry is not our industry. We don’t sit back and say, well, we’re gonna figure out how people are going to work and then we’re gonna create products and services to enable that. What has happened—our industry is directed by the economy. And so when you think about that, you can literally look at points in history over the last 10, 15, even 20 years that have shaped the change in the way people work. And as a result have shaped the change we’ve seen in the industry.

Paul: As an example, coming through what was the great recession in 2009 and 10, as our industry recovered, what was going on was all business, which recovered, and real estate. People began to look at real estate and say we’ve got to get more from it. And you will recall the days where all of a sudden new product platforms like benching—we were in a cubicle world, the Dilbert world so much prior to that. But then we went to this benching, high density, all of that kind of thing, which was really an economic driver. But what came out of that as we came through that recovery period, literally coming up to I would say 2015, 16, 17, 18 leading up towards the pandemic, is people began to say, you know, from a human standpoint, high density is just not great, doesn’t feel all that good.

Paul: And at that point, we began to see this shift away from that to more open flex. In fact, you will recall a term that was used 5, 6 years ago quite a bit was resimercial, you know, we want to create this feel like we’re at home. And that was the right direction I believe because I think we overcorrected to density because of high cost real estate, you know. So we began to shift away from the Dilbert cubicle, the high density and we began to open space up, which was interesting. And then the pandemic broke and as you know, we all kind of went home.

Paul: And so today, I think we’re still living with a little bit of hangover post pandemic in that we’re still trying to find our way in the work environment because of hybrid work. Certainly we have opened space back up. We look at it as more flexible and we’ve kind of broadened our thinking in response to all these factors—societal, pandemic, economic, technological, all those kinds of things—right to where today I think we are more responsive and reflective and it’s no longer just the work environment, we get to play now today in the built environment. And I think that’s been the biggest shift. So we move from a very system centric industry, maybe to a more pragmatic human industry, where we really look at the people and say, how do you want to work? Well, they want to work about like they live and play, right? And we can do all kinds of environments. We no longer have to focus on just the office. So I would say those were the big seismic shifts, but they were all generated from either economic or societal issues. In fact, the pandemic, not to sterilize it too much, but it was actually not only was it a tragic thing, but it was an economic event, a huge economic event that shifted again the way we work and the way we perceive and think about it.

Tim: You know, I think it’s funny because I think that we were moving towards it in my perspective 10 years ago. We were starting to have conversations around choice and control of where and how people work, right? That sounds very similar to today. And it’s funny because some people are bringing this up as if it’s a new concept. But we were having these conversations 10 years ago. So this industry was moving towards that way before and I think everyone else caught up to them.

Paul: Yeah. We were moving, there’s no doubt, you’re exactly right about that. We were moving towards that and it was as a response from this whole densification movement. It’s a pure economic play, right? And so we were moving there. But what the pandemic then did is it almost wiped the whiteboard clean, kind of said now we can accelerate and we can actually break some rules.

Tim: So I’ve been in this business a little while. You’ve been in much longer. The one thing I always hear is everything old is new again. This industry has been cyclical in ways. Have you seen that? How have you seen that if you have? And do you think post pandemic, any kind of cycles are going to continue or do you think we’ve broken all cycles at this point?

Paul: I love that you’re bringing that up because we talk about it internally a lot, especially as we look at products that are being developed or the way that work, social spaces, you know, whatever the space is, how it’s being equipped. And you’re right, I’ve been in the industry a long time, I came into the industry in 1984. In 1984 we were just really starting to get our heads wrapped around cubicles. And at that time, it was very much a landscaped environment, freestanding elements that were movable and all that kind of thing. We were in this density and this, you know, shut me down kind of mode. And I would say we see some trends that certainly are coming back. Do we see cycles? I think so. I do believe we will see a return to privacy. We’ve already started seeing it in some markets, but with a lot more maturity about our thinking, as opposed to just packing people in, giving them a screen, here’s a set of headphones, right, so you can get some privacy. So there’s no question that as each generation comes into the workplace, and I think that’s the other big thing is millennials and Gen Z are shaping things right in the way that they work, they live, they play. So yeah, there’s no doubt there’s a return. It’s funny, we look at products today and say, wow, it’s kind of like we’re back in the late eighties again in some ways. Is that a bad thing? No, because it’s a brand new iteration of that. And generationally, I think people rediscover things that really do work and they discard things that we know don’t work.

Paul: So yeah, there’s some rhythm to that. I think there really truly is. Are we gonna go back to the Dilbert Cubicles, everybody in it? I don’t think so. I think we’re just gonna be more pragmatic about the applications of role and work style and that kind of thing.

Tim: It’s to me the craziest thing that when I hear people starting to ask for panels and they want them to go a little higher, all in the honor of safety, feeling a little bit more safe in the office, for whatever that means for different people. But we’ve talked over the years, you know, I’ve been part of the conversations with you about this very thing, how the systems products or what others would call cubicles has been becoming such a smaller and smaller piece of the pie over the years. I’m sensing it may not get back to where it was 50% of what this industry did or whatever, but I think that piece of the pie is starting to grow a little bit and I really had in my mind left it for dead that it was going away for good.

Paul: Yeah, that’s a great observation you’re making. That’s where I come back and say, I think what I see from where we sit is we are the influencers that help clients figure out—and we’re influencers too, you are, I am—I think it’s more pragmatic. We don’t have to have monolithic floor plates where everybody’s in the same thing, right? It’s more adaptive to how do these people work, how does their role fulfill flexibility, mission and the purpose. And so today we have, I think we’ve become more durable as people and we really are focused on the people. Not OK, there’s 500 people on this floor, they’re all in this cookie cutter. We’ve abandoned that, which I think is a beautiful thing. And we’re saying now some people need that. Others need this. What does that look like?

Paul: And you know, tying that back to culture in a sense, culture’s gotta be elastic, right? And the way people wanna work, that’s gotta be elastic too because that’s how they do their best work. Not everybody fits each part of the mold. So we went through this time where it’s like everybody’s the same. Then we went through this time of densification and we were ignoring the person all along. And I think today that’s what’s most exciting—there’s choice and you’re gonna see it. Yeah, there’s gonna be systems product, there’s going to be other kinds of things. I mean, look at what’s going on. I think one of the big things out of the density phase was look at pods today where people think privacy, my gosh, you know, I just want to have a phone conversation.

Paul: So I’m excited that we—yeah, there are some things that are returning. I’m with you, systems furniture used to be over a third of what was sold in products in our industry. Today it’s around 11%. Will it go back to that? No. But we’re more practical, we’re pragmatic about what the human and the role and what they’re trying to accomplish need.

Tim: So you said a word. I’m gonna steal it because I’ve never heard it described this way but that we have become more durable post pandemic. I think it’s a great description of what’s happened, the best I’ve heard. I feel like that’s what’s happened on the other side of this—that we’ve all become more durable. We can take a lot more, we can take a punch a lot better than maybe we could before.

Tim: So to the point about the pandemic, we get through the pandemic, here we are on the other side, we’ve got major companies requiring people to come back five days a week. That’s gonna be a trend that’s gonna continue into this next year. I know it. What I find interesting, it’s nothing to do with interiors, but I’m certain that you’ve heard about this, what I find interesting is that there’s a cottage industry out there now that’s being created to train people how to act in the office because we have a population of individuals that either have never been in the office, graduated during the pandemic and went right home and now are being forced to put their pants on and come back to work. Or you have people that were barely in the workforce, went home and have now been required to come back and they really just don’t understand what it means to be in the office.

Paul: Yeah, and part of that, I think you’re right. The pandemic, that whole forced shutdown, now we’ve got to figure out how we can work in a remote or now a hybrid state. As we’ve been going through a generational shift, right? Baby boomers are kind of leaving the stage, we’ve got Gen Z and the next generation that will come to the workforce beyond Z is I think Generation Alpha. And each has to be equipped right for work. What’s fascinating about this whole thing, Tim—human beings, we are designed to be together. We are. It’s just, it works better. Now, you and I are in two different cities today. We’re having this conversation. That’s really, really cool. I’d much rather be sitting in a room with you, 100%. And I think that we have to equip people with skill sets that allow them to be most effective in that work environment.

Paul: And, you know, I’m not really surprised that we have to teach that because I think each generation has a preference of intake of information, how they learn, how they communicate, all that kind of thing. But as we come together more, which I think is the natural evolution, flexibility—by the way, the output of this whole remote hybrid I believe is flexibility in work life, and that’s actually a very healthy thing. And I don’t think we’ll lose that, which is great. But yeah, I’m really not surprised we have to be equipped. I had to learn, I’m old enough to say I had to learn how to go from a telephone or a pay telephone and pager to operating efficiently in business with a cellphone. I mean, it’s not like, you know, it’s the normal evolution of generations, the way we do things and how we do things, but we’re meant to be together. We are designed to be together as humans. However we get there, we must make sure that we’re skilled to be able to do that efficiently and effectively.

Tim: You know, I have this belief that we’ve gotten things confused or at least some people have. I don’t think you and I have, but I think some people have gotten it confused and distorted in how they view things as far as work from home. If separating us during the pandemic caused a mental health crisis, which it did—and why did it? Because separating people, we are meant to be together, we are emotional beings meant for connection. And if that’s the case, why is the answer going forward: separate each other and have no one together working? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Paul: No, it doesn’t make sense to me. I think the reason that there will always be—you know, it’s interesting, I was reading statistics the other day that actually today the job openings that are out there—only 8% of them are saying you can do this work remotely. That’s coming down, right, because we are designed to be together. And what I think is fascinating in that whole thing is in our personal lives, we want to be together with people. But there are some holdouts that say, well in work, we don’t need to be together. And I think that’s a wrong idea. And what they’re fighting to keep is freedom, freedom of how I go about my day and all that. Well, I think smart organizations with smart culture and all that kind of thing find ways to build in that flexibility and to give people that choice—you used the word learning of choice. And so are you really giving up freedom? You can dress any way you want. I think we’ve gotten more pragmatic on all that stuff. But there is no doubt about it that when we look back in time and we measure what was lost because we weren’t together, because we were artificially separated, I think generations will be smarter about how they approach those things in the future.

Tim: Your mouth to God’s ears. So where do you see this industry on the short term and long term? Because I think those are two very different things, especially for our industry. But where do you see this industry going?

Paul: In the short term, we are finally forecasting positive growth in core contract furniture and fixtures. If you’re not in the industry, forgive me for that, but we’ve seen inflation growth, we have not seen true just real growth. So we’re forecasting that for ’25, we’re excited about that. Things will continue to shift, there’ll be consolidations, there’ll be acquisitions, there’ll be all of that. So the short term, we’re looking for ’25 and ’26 to be good. And again, why tie it back to the economy, tie it back to what you said. We’ve finally seen commercial real estate move across the inflection point, and as we move back and get healthier in the office asset class, if you think about it that way.

Paul: But what excites me about this industry longer term is all of these changes we’ve been through, like so many industries have gone through so many changes. If we only talk about offices and office furniture, I think we’re dead and don’t know it. If we talk about the built environment—you know, we create amazing interior environments that are complex and there’s a lot of moving parts—those skills that I believe distributors, dealers have, because you’ve got designers, you’ve got project, you’ve got such a great handle on managing complexity and delivering really cool environments. And that translates into any environment. It’s not just the office. And I think that’s what’s exciting about our industry, that really great high performing distributors, dealers, however you think of them, have evolved their thinking to say we can equip and deliver all kinds of environments, whether it’s office or whether it’s social spaces or whether it’s hospitality. And I believe, frankly, there’s more opportunities looking forward in our industry than there ever was looking back. And a lot of people want to look back.

Paul: I think that we play in the work in the built environment. You guys are a great example. You are a diversified entity that can meet clients’ needs in all kinds of spaces and in all kinds of ways. You’ve already got the DNA to manage the complexity. So I’m bullish about the future. I think it will continue to evolve for those that continue to evolve more opportunity than ever. The challenge is—and I’ll link it back to culture—it doesn’t look like what it used to look like, so it’s really important that we look forward.

Tim: So let’s put this to bed. Let’s go ahead and get this question out there. Do you feel the dealer model continues to have legs going forward or are we on the—let’s just call it the back nine of the dealer model?

Paul: No, I think that we will always see dealers. Now what we are seeing, and I’ll explain that, what we’re seeing in dealers is the high performing dealers, meaning they’re profitable, they’re able to reinvest, hire the brightest, utilize best technologies, all those kind of things, they continue to even get better. There is no one in the ecosystem of influencers—manufacturer, distributor and client—that can manage complexity and manage or take care of risk mitigation for a customer the way a dealer can. There’s nobody that can do it. A manufacturer can’t do it. Their model is about building things, designing things even. But can they fulfill it? No. Commercial real estate, they don’t want the headaches. A&D? No, they can’t do it. So high performing dealers will always be relevant because they know that their value proposition to the end user is risk mitigation. We’re gonna take what is highly complex because every job is different, every project, every interior—we’re gonna manage you through that. We’re gonna minimize your time, your energy, your cost and your exposure. We’re gonna deliver on our promise. And as long as dealers are able to do that, they will be relevant. In fact, even more so than I think some of those in the influencer set.

Tim: So I agree with you. And I think the number one thing I talk about and we talk about all the time at Working Spaces is, you know, if you peel the onion back and get to the core, what do we do as an organization? We mitigate risk. We mitigate risk. It is a support mitigation.

Paul: Yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. And that’s why you guys are successful. And I think that’s the real key. Environments will not get simpler. Especially if we think in the built environment, I’m kind of on that personal mission of talking about the built environment and the opportunity there. They’ll get more complex and your ability to continue to mitigate risk and manage complexity for the client will always keep you relevant. And frankly, I don’t think everybody wants a part of somebody else’s pie. But frankly, that is where if everything—you put the client in the middle, you put risk mitigation as the value proposition—relevancy will be durable, I’ll use that word again. It’ll be durable. And, man oh man, what’s going on with companies like yourselves and your peers… And frankly, clients want to be able to come to one person and accomplish the broadest thing they can.

Tim: That’s right. Look, we’re in six markets, you know, Denver to Orlando. We’re a vast organization, geography wise. I wouldn’t necessarily call us—others may—but I don’t think I would call us a mega dealer yet. But maybe some would. But do you feel the mega dealership is gonna take over? Is that gonna put an end to mom and pop shops or is everyone gonna be able to coexist in the future?

Paul: That’s a great question, and the fascinating point about that question is we get to sit in a unique place and view all of these people financially and operationally. The one thing that the mega dealer in terms of size and geographic reach has potentially over an individual location or whatever is optimizing scale. And in reality, we have seen very few of those large super regionals that have truly optimized that scale. So I would say to you what I believe we will see—and consolidation in our industry, acquisitions, consolidation, succession is what has made that happen. There are fewer dealers in the US today covering as many markets. And it’s just because of consolidation, like you cover all those multitude of markets. That’s not uncommon. In fact, multi dealer, multi market dealers outnumber single dealers.

Paul: But here’s the bottom line to all that: whether you’re multi location, whether you’re super large, whether you’re a smaller single location, it’s all about your ability to be profitable and keep the client glued to you. That’s the thing. So if you’re the mega dealer, your big mission in life is to figure out how do we actually optimize the scale. And you know, coming back to culture again, how difficult is it to have that culture you want and deploy and execute on things when you’re in five or six markets? It’s gotta be intentional, you gotta be super intentional.

Paul: So no, I don’t think it’s the super dealer game of the future. What I think it is is the high performing dealer or distributor, as we like to think about it because you guys have certainly evolved, all of you. And I think it’s more what it’s about—being the best of the best, whether you’re multi location, whether you’re super large, whether you’re on the other end of that spectrum, you’re a little bit smaller. One thing too, by the way, in smaller markets, you have the ability to be closer to the market, closer to the clients than you influence yourself. When you’re in mega markets, you have super large, over 3 million population markets, it’s a little harder. So I would say that it really comes down to how efficient do you operate as a business? How powerful and impactful are the people? Are the right people in the right seats doing the right thing? That’s gonna be the bigger predictor of success long term.

Tim: So one thing I love about Solomon Coyle is the data we get and the comparative data we get to show where we kind of sit compared to others. On almost all major categories—and we have worked hard at this—one thing that we’re quite proud of is that we kind of hit the mark on high performing dealer in most, if not all, of the markers. And we’re proud of that. But what do you see as the difference that makes that difference between a high performing dealer and average or even low performing dealer?

Paul: That question is a question that we think about, talk about, and work with people every day. I’ll give it to you in a few things. Number one, to quote John Maxwell, everything rises and falls on leadership. So it starts with the leaders, I think, of the company. And then where that goes from there is do they have a client-centric and stakeholder-centric culture? And then I would say the third thing is to say that we have this responsibility to our shareholders, our stakeholders, and our clients to be profitable. What does that look like? And that’s to be efficient. And at the end of the day, what that really comes down to is people. We have the best people. We have great role clarity, they understand their purpose and their mission. We have a clean process and we don’t have to have a bloated organization to do it.

Paul: And I think that’s really, at the end of the day, where we see it. It all rises and falls on leadership, culture comes from that curated culture, certainly, and then having the right people. And when you’re the right people, you don’t have to have 30% more people. People are your biggest investment, they’re your biggest cost. And that is the hallmark that we see in high performing dealers—great leadership, healthy culture, right people.

Tim: Paul, I am again, I love the conversations that I get to have with you. I learn something every time. I want to just go on the record and go ahead and say as this thing drops, this episode of the podcast, you will be but a couple of weeks away from retirement and I want to say congratulations face to face. I want to just tell you, congratulations. You’re living the dream. I wish you the best. I do want to know, what does retirement look like to you?

Paul: Yeah. I don’t like the word retirement. What I prefer to think about is I’ve been finishing my 41st year in the industry. And the wonderful part about this industry for me has been I love to learn. I’m a sponge. You said you learn from me. I learn from you. Thank you for that. So for me, it’s shifting gears. I’ve always fit life around work. I want to invert that and I want to fit work around life. So will I stay involved in the industry? I will always be curious, helping people and helping them have a great business, which I think is about having a great life too that feeds that great life.

Paul: So you won’t see me go away, it’s not the recliner. I am going to pursue my personal passions outside of work, certainly to a much higher degree. But I’ll stay involved. I’m curious, you know, they say there is no success without succession. So it’s time for me to get out of the way of the team at Solomon Coyle and let them lead into the future. And I will still be around to be a supporter, a cheerleader, and you know my cell phone.

Tim: So good, because we’re gonna take advantage of it. We don’t want a world without Paul Holland involved in this industry. That is so kind. It’s been the best part about what I do and what we do at Solomon Coyle and it’s just like getting to do this podcast with you. Thank you for that, Tim. We’ve gotten to be able… I think it’s my job and it’s always been my job to go learn, to seek insights so that if I can give you one thing that would inspire you to lead the company differently or to create that culture, then I’ve done my job. And wow, what an enviable job to have.

Tim: Well, from Working Spaces, and quite frankly, I’m gonna take the liberty of speaking for the entire industry, thank you for everything that you’ve done. We’re excited for the future for you and we’re excited to see how you stay involved and we can stay involved with you. But thank you for today as well. Lots of great insight and we just appreciate your time today.

Paul: Thank you. It was my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity to spend time with you and have a great dialogue.